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If Xbox One has not been exploited for backups - what are all the backups online?

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Keylock

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Based on the threads here, the Xbox One isn't modded for any kind of backup playing (at least not at a public level).
There seems to be a slew of Xbox One games posted online though?
If the ability to play a backups isn't around, what are these supposed game copies?
Not trying to instigate a discussion of 'piracy' etc, but rather, if game backups are being made - what's their purpose if they can't be played?
 
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Amphium

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Based on the threads here, the Xbox One isn't modded for any kind of backup playing (at least not at a public level).
There seems to be a slew of Xbox One games posted online though?
If the ability to play a backups isn't around, what are these supposed game copies?
Not trying to instigate a discussion of 'piracy' etc, but rather, if game backups are being made - what's their purpose if they can't be played?
its more than likely for people to download if it ever becomes possible in the future to run backups.
 
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Keylock

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I may have missed this in my research, but I didn't realize backing up games had been figured out?
Are they ripping discs, or scraping digital downloads off their hdd's? (not that it ultimately probably matters, but I'm curious either way)
 
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Turtle wave

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Backing up the game is just copying files nothing fancy there. Playing backed up games little more complicated. That being said it probably isn't impossible to adjust the game you download to register as owned and play offline.

Most wouldn't be able to do it (don't think there is a velocity type program for one yet) so itd have to be done manually but im sure there are people already doing it.

There have been various people "soft" mod their consoles just nothing you can take online without getting banned. Nobody is sharing either. People remember how much money was made of modding 360s and they all want that again but from ones. If everything is free and public then can't charge somebody $1000 dollars for nothing.
 
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Keylock

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If it's not complicated to backup the discs, why was it such an ordeal with the 360 that you have a specific drive, with specific firmware to read the disc?
I haven't tried, but I have a suspicion that I can't just throw an Xbox One disc in any disc tray and have my machine read its contents. Am I wrong?

I've always wondered why people look at the console to play backups, rather than figuring out how to basically stamp a master/original copy as if it came right from the vendor. I know nothing about the process, but I don't feel like I've seen that process discussed at least not as much as people discuss making the box itself be the attack vector.
 
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Amphium

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If it's not complicated to backup the discs, why was it such an ordeal with the 360 that you have a specific drive, with specific firmware to read the disc?
I haven't tried, but I have a suspicion that I can't just throw an Xbox One disc in any disc tray and have my machine read its contents. Am I wrong?

I've always wondered why people look at the console to play backups, rather than figuring out how to basically stamp a master/original copy as if it came right from the vendor. I know nothing about the process, but I don't feel like I've seen that process discussed at least not as much as people discuss making the box itself be the attack vector.
Microsoft stepped their game up, there were so many exploits on the 360 such as the jtag hack & flashed disc drives that they made sure to secure the **** out of the xbox one lol
 
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Keylock

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Microsoft stepped their game up, there were so many exploits on the 360 such as the jtag hack & flashed disc drives that they made sure to secure the **** out of the xbox one lol

So is the current consensus that game discs are not secure, and instead the all measures reside within the console at this point?
Seems like if you could make an identical clone of a disc somehow, the console would still play it (just like a vendor stamping out discs).
 
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Cynder

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So is the current consensus that game discs are not secure, and instead the all measures reside within the console at this point?
Seems like if you could make an identical clone of a disc somehow, the console would still play it (just like a vendor stamping out discs).
Theoretically it could work, but I bet that its much more expensive to do that then to buy it in a retail store.
 
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Keylock

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Maybe - guess it depends on what makes the store bought copy 'unique'.
I have heard they stamp games out rather than burn/write them - not sure if this leaves some distinguishable difference between a burned disc and a stamped disc.
If it's a physical trait - what is it? What would it take to simulate that physical trait?
If it's a digital trait - what is it? What would it take to simulate that digital trait?

When it came to the 360, the discussions seemed to indicate there was basically DRM (some form) in the data that prevented it from being read by a non-360 drive. With the modified firmware on the special drives, it allowed the data to be read just like a 360 itself. From there data was read off, but the DRM/security sectors were not.
I always wondered if the security sectors in the data were the only limitation, why incorporating the security data into backups was never attempted. Again, I'm sure I'm hyper-simplifying what is entailed in that task.
 
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TEIR1plus2

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Game discs were never secure. 360 used dual layer discs to allow more storage. You needed a dual layer drive to read them, they werent really special, just the highest capacity dvd avaliable at the time. With a dual layer drive you could read them wothout an issue.

If i had to guess id say xbox one discs are bluray, if you have a bluray drive on your pc you could read it. Use a program to copy the iso from the disc.

Edit: "why dont people figure out how to make it look like its legit instead of figuring out how to flash the drive?" Basically, because of math and infinitely high numbers. For example for rsa signatures, you cant resign stuff because you dont know the key that was used to sign it. How rsa works is it uses factoring to make it secure. Picture a number like 32. What can you multiply to get 32? 16 and 2 or 8 and 4. Picuture one of those sets is the key. Now picture a number with a lot more numbers in it. Obviously theres a lot more numbers you can multiply together to get that higher number. Thats why its so secure. When you have a number thats extremely high, theres an extremely high amount of numbers used to get that number and only one of them is the key. Thats why its so secure. There are more things that go into rsa but that gives you a very basic idea of how it works.
 
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Keylock

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With a dual layer drive you could read them wothout an issue.

If i had to guess id say xbox one discs are bluray, if you have a bluray drive on your pc you could read it. Use a program to copy the iso from the disc.

So this is different from what I remember. With the 360, you had to have a specific dl capable drive, flashed with custom firmware to allow it to read the disk.
With regards to the RSA key on a disc - does that key change disc to disc? I wouldn't expect it to.
I figure the disc is identical one copy to the next, so the key should be same and same. If the drive can read the key, shouldn't it be able to store then write that big long value onto the new disc? I guess that's the part that still confuses me.

EDIT:
I started reading about DRM, and other methods manufacturers make their discs special, and 'Stamping' came up again.
I didn't realize the actual allocation of data on the disc can be a method by which they restrict things - I just thought 'stamping' made it so it included this magic RSA key you mentioned. But it sounds like a burned disc != a stamped disc.
So now I'm wondering what goes into stamping a disc.
Could you take an original, throw it into a stamping device/machine, and have it stamp out a copy that your console would acknowledge as original?
I get that stamping machines appear to cost more than it would reasonably be worth to backup your games, but conceptually I'm curious either way.
 
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Gazcoigne

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on the 360 game discs there was a special a special track that contained a security sector, that could not be burned to a copy disc in the same region, only read in a disk drive.

the CFW on the drive was reprogrammed to look for the security sector that was in an area of the DVD-R DL that could be written to.

if you were to put the game into a standard dvd player in your PC, it was read as a DVD rom and a short movie played telling you to insert the disc into an xbox 360 console.

That is why you had to either get a kreon fw flashed pc drive, or use a native xbox 360 drive with 0800 fw flashed in order to rip your own discs as they could read the security sector and unlock the game partition to be read.

this technology is probably the same in Xbox one games but developed further as they developed a disc checking algorithm that could detect if your disc was real or burned by the data layout differences. that is why we seen LT3.0 created by C4EVA that worked out the algorithm to reply the correct response.

i would say that this has been further implemented, but the same security sector PFI DMI etc that has been present from the original Xbox console in early 2000's.
 
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Sarxy

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Based on the threads here, the Xbox One isn't modded for any kind of backup playing (at least not at a public level).
There seems to be a slew of Xbox One games posted online though?
If the ability to play a backups isn't around, what are these supposed game copies?
Not trying to instigate a discussion of 'piracy' etc, but rather, if game backups are being made - what's their purpose if they can't be played?

Piracy is always a thing. There's always gonna be that secret method that some crazy hackers managed to get pirate games on. Just like the PS4 where they cloned the nand to get pirate games.
Plus backups are easy to make. Theres usually always a drive that can read the disc and make a copy. Not sure why these games are posted but probably just because they can :tongue:
 
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schitzotm

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No different method then before.
Have a burner, remove the top, insert a dvd, once it spins up hit the burn button then hotswap the dvd for the xbox 360 dvd.
Same rules apply. Have bluray burner, remove top, insert bluray disc, select burn, then swap bluray for xbox one disc.
Kinda useless at the moment though. Just taking up space on your pc. But there are methods to hotswap on an xbox one. Would still require to have the original disc but there is really no point in the burn disc now is there since that really seems to be the only time the disc even spins is when it first loads or when its ripping the disc to drive.
 
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HexDecimal

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No different method then before.
Have a burner, remove the top, insert a dvd, once it spins up hit the burn button then hotswap the dvd for the xbox 360 dvd.
Same rules apply. Have bluray burner, remove top, insert bluray disc, select burn, then swap bluray for xbox one disc.
Kinda useless at the moment though. Just taking up space on your pc. But there are methods to hotswap on an xbox one. Would still require to have the original disc but there is really no point in the burn disc now is there since that really seems to be the only time the disc even spins is when it first loads or when its ripping the disc to drive.

There is no way to hotswap on the One. The console is aware when the disc is removed even if you open the top and swap the disc while its spinning. Even if you somehow got around that, it has ways of telling 2 copies apart. You couldn't even swap between 2 "legit" discs. As for reading One Discs, you can just hook the console's blu-ray drive to your PC and read normally, but you will need to power it off the console.
 
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TEIR1plus2

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There is no way to hotswap on the One. The console is aware when the disc is removed even if you open the top and swap the disc while its spinning. Even if you somehow got around that, it has ways of telling 2 copies apart. You couldn't even swap between 2 "legit" discs. As for reading One Discs, you can just hook the console's blu-ray drive to your PC and read normally, but you will need to power it off the console.
If the disc is already installed it works. Not a way to pirate it but I guess some people use it to share games within the household.
 
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schitzotm

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There is no way to hotswap on the One. The console is aware when the disc is removed even if you open the top and swap the disc while its spinning. Even if you somehow got around that, it has ways of telling 2 copies apart. You couldn't even swap between 2 "legit" discs. As for reading One Discs, you can just hook the console's blu-ray drive to your PC and read normally, but you will need to power it off the console.
No way to hotswap?
And I don't wanna hear that crap about having ways of telling. So did the xbox 360 yet swapping the disc at the right time was always the way around that.
Disc checks are simple, in order for it to take a read of the original disc again the head would need to work back to the beginning of the disc again. That would result in slow process. If every blemish in the disc force the head back to the beginning then the slightest blemish would render the disc useless. Since that is not the case simple read errors do not throw the head back to read the disc to check for a legit disc. Hot swapping will always work for anything with a disc. The real trick would be figuring out exactly when one can hot swap. Get out of here with that "it has ways of knowing." crap. Every disc reader since dvd have had "ways of knowing".
It just isn't efficient to run the head back to read it for the smallest issue. Which is how hot swapping works in the first place.
This guy in the video uses this to play two consoles with one disc. Now, as you see this works just like 360. Disc spins up to check disc is used. From there it runs on what was ripped to the hard drive. So just like the 360 lets say we are putting the disc on for the first time and it is ripping to the console. So we use this console mod to still the disc while it is ripping then we insert our modded disc.
As long as the first part of the rip goes we can continue ripping from the modded disc.
It's all a matter of figuring out when.
 
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HexDecimal

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No way to hotswap?
And I don't wanna hear that crap about having ways of telling. So did the xbox 360 yet swapping the disc at the right time was always the way around that.
Disc checks are simple, in order for it to take a read of the original disc again the head would need to work back to the beginning of the disc again. That would result in slow process. If every blemish in the disc force the head back to the beginning then the slightest blemish would render the disc useless. Since that is not the case simple read errors do not throw the head back to read the disc to check for a legit disc. Hot swapping will always work for anything with a disc. The real trick would be figuring out exactly when one can hot swap. Get out of here with that "it has ways of knowing." crap. Every disc reader since dvd have had "ways of knowing".
It just isn't efficient to run the head back to read it for the smallest issue. Which is how hot swapping works in the first place.
This guy in the video uses this to play two consoles with one disc. Now, as you see this works just like 360. Disc spins up to check disc is used. From there it runs on what was ripped to the hard drive. So just like the 360 lets say we are putting the disc on for the first time and it is ripping to the console. So we use this console mod to still the disc while it is ripping then we insert our modded disc.
As long as the first part of the rip goes we can continue ripping from the modded disc.
It's all a matter of figuring out when.

First, you are not going to pull off any kind of modding with this. Games are encrypted and signed, along with the disc license. The game is copied to the HDD during the first install, thats correct, but the console verifies the disc on each and every launch. While the game is running, the console also regularly checks for the disc and the license. Do you have a video of the hotswapping on the latest build? That guy you linked is BS. Especially his "2 internal HDDs" video.
 
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Sketch

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No way to hotswap?
And I don't wanna hear that crap about having ways of telling. So did the xbox 360 yet swapping the disc at the right time was always the way around that.
Disc checks are simple, in order for it to take a read of the original disc again the head would need to work back to the beginning of the disc again. That would result in slow process. If every blemish in the disc force the head back to the beginning then the slightest blemish would render the disc useless. Since that is not the case simple read errors do not throw the head back to read the disc to check for a legit disc. Hot swapping will always work for anything with a disc. The real trick would be figuring out exactly when one can hot swap. Get out of here with that "it has ways of knowing." crap. Every disc reader since dvd have had "ways of knowing".
It just isn't efficient to run the head back to read it for the smallest issue. Which is how hot swapping works in the first place.
This guy in the video uses this to play two consoles with one disc. Now, as you see this works just like 360. Disc spins up to check disc is used. From there it runs on what was ripped to the hard drive. So just like the 360 lets say we are putting the disc on for the first time and it is ripping to the console. So we use this console mod to still the disc while it is ripping then we insert our modded disc.
As long as the first part of the rip goes we can continue ripping from the modded disc.
It's all a matter of figuring out when.
He isn't exactly wrong though. When you insert a disc into the Xbox One for the first time then the console will extract and sort the game onto the hard drive. When you then want to play the game and insert the disc again; the disc is only read for the license files. So the whole "modded disc" thing won't even work. You'd need to not only sign your own "modded" version but also generate a bunch of license files. It's not happening.
 
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x1lover

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you guys do realize if you have an external hard drive and upload the game to the hard drive from your computer, as long as the download is legit and an actual copy of the game and not a bogus one, then it will work and can be played. it can't be a microsoft certified hard drive though. and it has to be a copy made from a digital purchase not a physical disc
 
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